Curse

kupp · Jun 18, 2009, 11:34 PM // 23:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airstu

Ping a cookie cutter build, run what you want.

I endorse this. There's been times where I just couldn't be bothered to play the 'meta' or run the stuff people wanted me to. So I just pinged whatever they wanted and equiped and I wanted after. And I never heard any complaints.

Einherj3r · Jun 18, 2009, 11:34 PM // 23:34

Buildism is real!
Don't ignore what is happening around you!
Fight the ignorance!
Against buildism, for human rights!

What Now · Jun 18, 2009, 11:36 PM // 23:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kook~NBK~

This is nothing new, as it's been going on for years. Remember the old days in PvE when it was assumed that a Mesmer couldn't possibly have a decent skill bar simply because they were a MESMER?

I wasn't aware that changed x.x unless you do a billion aoe damage, can tank a billion people, or heal for a billion health, pass

Gun Pierson · Jun 18, 2009, 11:37 PM // 23:37

Since when is a wammo with mending an experiment? It's a newbie mistake.

Here's the guru guide for playing a warrior in pve:http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...php?t=10326347

When you understand the basics of the warrior in this game, you can start to experiment with 'exotic' combinations. Someone who knows the warrior class would never experiment with mending or monk as secondary in a normal team setup.

Daisuko · Jun 18, 2009, 11:37 PM // 23:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Expherious

I ran a D/W Symbolic Striker in RA, And I get like 150-200 damage easy, thats without an elite mind you

W/D would likely be better than D/W due to armor penetration and higher armor, in addition to access to strength skills...

byteme! · Jun 18, 2009, 11:43 PM // 23:43

@OP - Your underlying problem is you are testing builds good or bad at the expense of your team. They have every right to criticize you if you're gonna drag them down with you. It's all about efficiency. I would not want to spend 45 minutes to carry a bad player/skill bar through when I can achieve the same goal in half the time with a proper group. Now you multiply this scenario X amount of times and the total amount of time saved adds up. Time is money and you're not helping much.

Get it?

If you want to "test" things do it in your own time. On your own team or go do some RA and FA but don't join a team expecting them to carry you through while you figure out whether your build is good or not.

Your team is only as strong as it's weakest link. If you're the weak link I suggest you suck in your ego/pride/whatever and do something about it.

There is a difference between elitism and people just wanting to succeed. In your case it wasn't elitism (not even remotely close), you just had a very very bad skill bar and I would've just kicked you had you decided to pick an argument with me (not much to argue about in the first place since it's not an argument you can win).

Eddie Frenzy Spam · Jun 18, 2009, 11:51 PM // 23:51

This thread is made of fail.

There's a difference between experimenting with builds that have potential, and playing builds that will NEVER be good.

In PvE it doesn't matter so much but don't complain about people calling you bad for running bad builds, they want to actually finish the mission in a reasonable time. If you want to run around playing bad bars then you're free to do so, but really don't expect people who are actually serious about doing the mission to take you.

Khyr Lord of Kaoz · Jun 18, 2009, 11:51 PM // 23:51

LOL at the people who think cookie cutter builds are necessarily MOST effective. Wrong. I have builds of my own (original builds), that are as good as most cookie cutter builds, or better.

You know the funny bit. Someone thought up a cookie cutter build, just as I thought up mine. Some guy says, wow, this works great, and thinks it's the best/most efficient way. It gets taken up by the community, because people are generally lazy. It doesn't always, or even usually make it the most effective build. It makes it the build everyone uses.

If someone insists on me using a specific build, I tell them no, kick me now, or shut up. Because in the end, I'm not going to be dictated to by a guy who thinks he knows more than I do. He may and he may not. I'm guessing the latter.

I've been very successful creating my own builds and don't use cookie cutter builds out of pride. I pride myself on being my own man. In fact, this game, for me, is ABOUT different kinds of builds.

So for those of you who think I should kowtow to popular opinion (which as far as I'm concerned is not always the best way to do things), I think you should all go play WoW. After all, more people play it, so it must be better than GW, right?

/shakes head in exasperation

belladonna shylock · Jun 18, 2009, 11:54 PM // 23:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sword Hammer Axe

Another: During the Eldritch Ettin Z-quest I had Mending (Yes I did, big whoop wanna fight about it?), combined with Feel no Pain (and a bit of alcohol <3). Again people laughed at me and kicked me out even though I actually had +345 hp, - 2 damage reduction (since I had an enchanted shield) and constant 6 hp regeneration not to mention the other selfprotective skills I had. Again I had to do it myself (And succeded in less than 45 minutes even though it was on HM with only 15% dp on one of my heroes)

This is why I hate pugs

fenix · Jun 18, 2009, 11:54 PM // 23:54

Cookie cutter builds aren't necessarily the most effective or efficient, but they ARE when you look at effort vs efficiency/effectiveness.

The reason they become 'meta' in PvE is because they easy to play, and win better than most builds. The builds that are better, require more skill to play, so people don't worry about running it in pugs.

]HM[ Sabre Wolf · Jun 18, 2009, 11:55 PM // 23:55

Mate... what you are doing is a good thing... dont let others jump on you and stuff... this is how I got my start in guild wars, looking at skills and looking at complementing them with a different profession set of skills then the first... like Pious Haste and Weapon Spells for example... but I digress...

Dont let some lame and probably uncreative people get you down because that follow the herd... do your own thing, and be proud of it. Look me up if you want to chit-chat about builds.

byteme! · Jun 18, 2009, 11:58 PM // 23:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khyr Lord of Kaoz

LOL at the people who think cookie cutter builds are necessarily MOST effective.

LOL at the people who think this thread is about cookie cutter builds being most effective.

Do you use mending too?! You must think you're different and uber pro now don't you? I heard +3 regen (6hp per sec) is overpowered. I also heard +3 regen isn't enough to negate any damage a monster would do in HM while "WANDING". Yes that's right. Mending is so pathetic it gets out damaged by an enemies wand.

Mending is HAWT!

PS. Why do people think it's in their right to drag their team mates down just so they can play the way they want? Selfish SOB's.

Khyr Lord of Kaoz · Jun 19, 2009, 12:02 AM // 00:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenix

Cookie cutter builds aren't necessarily the most effective or efficient, but they ARE when you look at effort vs efficiency/effectiveness.

The reason they become 'meta' in PvE is because they easy to play, and win better than most builds. The builds that are better, require more skill to play, so people don't worry about running it in pugs.

Life is a journey, not a destination.

If all people care about is getting through something fast, I wouldn't want to play with them anyway. And if that's what they care about, let them post for a speed clear group. Some of us like to take the time out to stop and smell the charr.

Whatever they meta with, if they have specific needs, let them ask for those needs. But insulting someone who thinks on his own, and has an original idea is NOT cause for insult.

I think using other people's builds because you're either too lazy or stupid to make your own is far reason to insult.

The truth is, it's the idiots like that do insult and want only fast and furious that have killed pugs for the rest of us.

fenix · Jun 19, 2009, 12:06 AM // 00:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khyr Lord of Kaoz

Life is a journey, not a destination.

If all people care about is getting through something fast, I wouldn't want to play with them anyway. And if that's what they care about, let them post for a speed clear group. Some of us like to take the time out to stop and smell the charr.

Whatever they meta with, if they have specific needs, let them ask for those needs. But insulting someone who thinks on his own, and has an original idea is NOT cause for insult.

I think using other people's builds because you're either too lazy or stupid to make your own is far reason to insult.

The truth is, it's the idiots like that do insult and want only fast and furious that have killed pugs for the rest of us.

Oh I agree. I've hated how elite zones have become a joke because of gimmicks. The problem is, just because we don't WANT people to finish HM Underworld in 11 minutes, or FoW in 25 or Urgoz in 15, or whatever the times are now, doesn't mean they'll stop.

ANet have dropped the ball with this, they were the ones who should have been making sure builds cannot do things like that.

byteme! · Jun 19, 2009, 12:09 AM // 00:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khyr Lord of Kaoz

Life is a journey, not a destination.

This isn't life. The game is 4 years old. A lot of people already took the journey. We've arrived at our destination and now we want to do it again faster/smarter/more efficient. It's all about constant improvement in all walks of life. If you're not constantly trying to better yourself you might as well die now. Why wait til old age.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khyr Lord of Kaoz

The truth is, it's the idiots like that do insult and want only fast and furious that have killed pugs for the rest of us.

Aside from the insults, people want to do things faster, better. It's natural progression. We always want to get better. Besides your statement is a double edged sword. The fast and furious killed pugs for you and you killed pugs for them by bringing sub par builds and dragging them down with you. It works both ways.

While you're busy blaming them for ruining your experience they are saying the same exact thing about you. In other words, go find yourself some like minded individuals who share your enthusiasm for experimentation and leave the people who actually want to perform efficiently alone. You have no place in their group because you won't fit in well. You've made this extremely obvious.

Zinger314 · Jun 19, 2009, 12:16 AM // 00:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Khyr Lord of Kaoz

If all people care about is getting through something fast, I wouldn't want to play with them anyway. And if that's what they care about, let them post for a speed clear group. Some of us like to take the time out to stop and smell the charr.

Tell that to your group, and you'll be lucky if they don't instantly kick you.

byteme! · Jun 19, 2009, 12:18 AM // 00:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

Tell that to your group, and you'll be lucky if they don't instantly kick you.

Amen Zinger amen!

Khyr Lord of Kaoz · Jun 19, 2009, 12:27 AM // 00:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by byteme!

This isn't life. The game is 4 years old. A lot of people already took the journey. We've arrived at our destination and now we want to do it again faster/smarter/more efficient. It's all about constant improvement in all walks of life. If you're not constantly trying to better yourself you might as well die now. Why wait til old age.

Better does not have to mean faster. In fact, doing it faster using someone else's build isn't better either. It means someone else has figured out a great way to do it, and so you think that makes you better or faster.

A GAMER would want to do it better or faster on his own merit, rather than just playing the same thing over and over with the same build over and over.

I'm all for progress. Somehow, I think progress isn't created by people who accept the status quo. Progress is made by people who make the new discoveries, which involves NOT USING cookie cutter builds.

You can defend, if you like, the use of efficient builds to do things faster, but don't make the mistake in thinking there is any progress in it. Doing it faster, using the builds everyone else is using is a form of STAGNATION.

As far as this not being life, that's true. However, I've often found most online societies are microcosms of life. And in those microcosms, it is not very often that the know-it-alls are the smartest or best segment of the population. I won't bring out psychological testing to prove what I'm saying, because this isn't the place for it, but if you're interested, I can give you links to the studies off list.

Basically those that talk the loudest and insist the most, are often not the most qualified. Those who use builds created by others and insist I do the same aren't interested in progress. They're interested in getting something for the least amount of work possible. Nothing wrong with that, but don't make it a purist thing. People do it in real life too and it's not better or righter there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by byteme!

Aside from the insults, people want to do things faster, better. It's natural progression. We always want to get better. Besides your statement is a double edged sword. The fast and furious killed pugs for you and you killed pugs for them by bringing sub par builds and dragging them down with you. It works both ways.

While you're busy blaming them for ruining your experience they are saying the same exact thing about you. In other words, go find yourself some like minded individuals who share your enthusiasm for experimentation and leave the people who actually want to perform efficiently alone. You have no place in their group because you won't fit in well. You've made this extremely obvious.

I'm not blaming anyone for anything. I'm saying there isn't reason for insult EVER. Unless you're twelve.

I have NO PROBLEM with someone saying, sorry mate, I'd like to do this fast, and I'm looking for someone with this build. That isn't my issue.

But anyone using someone else's build, and then insisting I do the same, an then insulting me for not doing it, most likely isn't as mature, experienced or as intelligent as they think they are.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

Tell that to your group, and you'll be lucky if they don't instantly kick you.

The funny bit is, I have said it, and most of the time, I don't get kicked. And in the end, I've yet to have a group say to me that your build wasn't good enough.

See, I have no problem being up front about what I play the game for. And I will tell a group leader, look if all you care about is doing this fast, don't bother inviting me. And I don't care if that group leader doesn't want me either.

Oddly enough, I don't seem to slow anyone down anyway. I just refuse to use someone else's build and then brag about how great I am.

Misa · Jun 19, 2009, 12:31 AM // 00:31

god.... oh i meant anet made heroes for a reason

Lux Aeterna · Jun 19, 2009, 12:36 AM // 00:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by byteme!

+3 regen isn't enough to negate any damage a monster would do in HM while "WANDING". Yes that's right. Mending is so pathetic it gets out damaged by an enemies wand.

The fact that you use mending and think -2 physical damage actually helps means you probably suck at this game.

You know what? My original, non-cookie cutter builds have all steadily improved, and after a certain point, the point when I got good at the game, I started finding all of my builds on wiki - even my terrible Quivering Blade test build is on the gvg section.

There's a reason for the meta. Don't be a dick and try to run crap just because it's different.